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Ray D. Noper said:
Well, as long as any kind of proselytism outside religious buildings is allowed, there’s nothing wrong with those adverts also. There are TV transmissions from frekking churches on public TV, for frek sake ! That’s even worse advertising – it offends people who think otherwise and it’s state-paid…
(Not that you usually would answer comments :P)
# 6 January 2009 at 9:27 pm

Sten said:
I do sometimes.
And I condemn every religious propaganda. Decent and reasonable people don’t do it.
# 6 January 2009 at 9:48 pm

Ray D. Noper said:
Well, then you have to consider The Atheist Bus a very Israel-like response to religious terror of the mind :P Of course it’s not very decent and reasonable, but in the current state of being – where atheists are condemned, insulted and in some countries (Iran, USA) practically excluded from public offices (i.e. discriminated) you have to “send in tanks”.
For example, recently in Estonian science magazine Horisont there was an article written by well-respected theologist Toomas Paul, which technically said that atheists are communists who don’t believe in Jesus Christ and instead believe in spiritualism. In. Frekking. Science. Magazine.
In Tartu, in public transport there are multimedia screens that between announcing bus stops show lousy powerpoint advertisements. About every fourth ad is for a specific church in Tartu, they have covered all bases – specific ads for preschool children, teenagers, adults… For example, the ad targeted to adults technically says, that your life is incomplete without JC and you are stupid if you won’t come to their church.
These are just a few examples – religious mind-terror is creeping like roaches and until they can hide behind ambigous “freedom of proselytizing” clause, counter-terrorism like Atheist Bus must be used. I do not want to see my country zombified, mumbling compulsory “one nation under god”…
# 7 January 2009 at 8:43 am

Sten said:
I don’t think it’s either nice or appropriate comparison.
But I must admit you’re right about many other things. I didn’t know they advertise a church in Tartu public transportation, and I do think it’s outrageous to do so. Nor have I held a copy of Horisont for a year. Although I have to admit that I believe religion and science do not rule each other out, not necessarily. Depends on how you look at either of them.
But you’re right. Advertising for converting to one or other religion is outrageous and offensive.
There is one thing though I thought of yesterday night. If a church is advertising itself to the same denomination of people the church belongs to, what then? I mean, if Christian church X advertises that they have the best priests and people from churches Y and Z should belong into their congregation… I.e. it’s not religious propaganda, people are not called upon changing religion, but only the place of worship inside the same denomination? It’s like advertising Ariel for people still using Persil :P
And by the way, while you are right about Iran, I don’t think things are that bad in the States. There might be some examples of such discrimination, but I doubt if it’s massive. And “one nation under God” is part of a traditional oath, everyone can take it as they want, or not recite it at all.
# 7 January 2009 at 2:39 pm

Ray D. Noper said:
Starting from the bottom, “traditional” means “since McCarthy’s witchhunt” now ? OK, news to me :P About the atheists in US… First link I’ve found: http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/article948684.ece
The problem with adverts in buses is that mostly they don’t announce it’s Christian organization at all… They, basically, say: hey kids/teens, come to our place, it’s fun and cool and we teach you about some significant concepts like “responsibility” and “good manners” etc. Well, nice, but if you check their themes, for example, for lectures to teenagers what do you find ? “Don’t do because Jesus does not want you to” or “if you accept JC you will be in in a very good place after you die” etc. It isn’t just bad religious advertising, it’s technically indecent… But they have the frekking “religious freedom” catch-all net (which, by the way, is translated as “you can believe in any god you want as long as you believe in a god” by most of them – yes, I have asked…)
But the cross-advertising idea… It would be spectacular if it’d be only allowed in churches… The show that would happen, for example, if Baptists put their advertising up in Witnesses congregation place… I guess I would pay for seeing that (unless they’re allowed to use firearms in “discussion”, wouldn’t want to be hit by a stray bullet).
# 7 January 2009 at 4:08 pm

Sten said:
Well, but it has become a tradition since they changed last the pledge, I think. And if they want to have it, why not then? If most of Americans are religious, then most of them probably support the “under God” statement in the pledge. Democracy.
And I still think that discrimination against Atheists isn’t massive in the States. As I said, it might happen, but not on every day basis. At least I’d hope so. Why would people even care? And it would be illegal to discriminate against anyone. I do want to hope that people, at least most of the people who get to make decisions are more or less reasonable human beings.
Concering the bus ads in Tartu, I agree with you completely. Such practice should be banned.
# 7 January 2009 at 4:27 pm

Ray D. Noper said:
I am not against American’s pledge, I just wouldn’t want the obligatory “under god” instated here, in Estonia – according to some research the most unreligious country in EU…
# 8 January 2009 at 7:40 am
| The Chronicles from the Empire said:
[...] the ads on London buses advertising for “no God”? Well, this is on London buses [...]
# 15 February 2009 at 4:29 pm

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